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Reflections from an Ecumenist, a Charismatic, and a Philosopher

by Sarah Wilson September 14, 2009

Michael Root, recently retired dean of Southern Seminary and long-time ecumenist, has started a blog on the state of the ELCA after the Churchwide Assembly that is well worth the reading. Larry Christenson, retired ELCA pastor and contributor to the current issue of Lutheran Forum, recently shared his thoughts on the aftermath of the CWA...

Michael Root, recently retired dean of Southern Seminary and long-time ecumenist, has started a blog on the state of the ELCA after the Churchwide Assembly that is well worth the reading.

Larry Christenson, retired ELCA pastor and contributor to the current issue of Lutheran Forum, recently shared his thoughts on the aftermath of the CWA.

“In the late 1970s my wife and I met with a group of faculty members at one of our ELCA seminaries. In the course of our conversation they asked us to share any personal concerns we might have about our ELCA seminaries. I answered, ‘One of the things that concerns us is the growing tendency to adjust our theology to the latest social fad.’ I went on to say, ‘If homosexuality were to become a fashionable social issue, would the church go along with that also?’ The very idea was literally hooted down. ‘Ridiculous! Impossible! Would never happen!  Scripture! The Lutheran Confessions!’

“And now it has happened. With exegetical and theological justification for which I would have been flunked when I was a student at Luther Theological Seminary.

“In our morning prayers following the ELCA convention my wife and I felt a sense of shame and grief. What should we do? No blaze of revelation came, but a quiet thought that we should attend church on Sunday dressed in black, with ashes on our foreheads, as a sign of sorrow for the ELCA. We love our worship and spiritual life at our parish. And we do not think the vote of a few hundred delegates at a carefully engineered Churchwide Assembly represents or speaks for the church we grew up in, love, and belong to.”

And finally, a thought from Soren Kierkegaard:

"The matter is quite simple. The Bible is very easy to understand. But we Christians are a bunch of scheming swindlers. We pretend to be unable to understand it because we know very well that the minute we understand, we are obliged to act accordingly. Take any word in the New Testament and forget everything except pledging yourself to act accordingly. My God, you will say, if I do that my whole life will be ruined. How would I ever get on in the world?"

(Cited from Provocations: Spiritual Writings of Kierkegaard, ed. Charles E. Moore [Farmington, PA: Plough, 2002], 201.)

If taken to it's logical conclusion...

Posted by James Gustafson at September 14, 2009 00:30

After reading David Yeago: In the Aftermath, and reflecting on it a bit, I'm struck by the idea that if we take that line of argument to it's logical conclusion, then all of the ELCA members should be asking if they would be "Permitted" to continue to preach and teach if they were in the Roman Catholic Church, and if it passed that same test as this article asks about staying in the ELCA, "Permitted" not made harder, would they be "permitted" to stay in the RC and teach the true gospel? I think for most of us the answer would be in the affirmative, and if so, then the exercise would say that we can't be Lutherans at all anymore but must join the RC Church?

And as such a conclusion as that is reached for the vast majority of us, I have to disagree with the premise entirely. The results of using this ends up with an erroneous answer, if it were a mathematical formula, we would have to question how the formula is broken and flawed before we use it. How, for example, does it account for 1 Corinthians 5:11: "But now I am writing to you not to associate with anyone who bears the name of brother if he is guilty of...."

"Absolute-ism"

Posted by Fredrik Christiansen at September 17, 2009 09:43
Martin Luther believed in demons and demonology. His little catechism ended with [English] "This is most certainly true." As a 20th century adolecent, I found this "absolute" statement based on a few 16th century human interpretations of a bible, incredible. There are those who will seriously discuss minutia at the expense of applying the overarching message of love.

Jesus believed in demons, too. Is He unloving?

Posted by Peter at September 21, 2009 08:16
Ah, Fred, yours is the universalist-relativist drivel that's plaguing the church, and it is a doctrine of demons. Even though the demons appeal to your 21st century superior knowledge by telling you that they don't exist, they really do exist. This is most certainly true.

Demons

Posted by Ann at September 29, 2009 03:12
This is most certainly true. Yes, demons were not dismissed sometime in the past. I regret to say that I have seen and heard manifestations that could be explained in no other way. Do not toy with anything that might have anything to do with demons. There are Christians (but few, I believe), who can deal with them. Sometimes the "enemy" has his greatest power in convincing people that something does not exist.

Words mean things and so do Organizational Documents

Posted by Samuel Adams at September 29, 2009 10:05
Nevertheless, if you don't want to take the confessional writings seriously and prefer instead to interpret the Bible in a different way, that's your prerogative. However, doesn't that mean you ought to form your own denomination with a constitution and bylaws that suit your frame of reference? It makes little sense to me to say the catechism or confessions or whatever documents are true interpretations of scripture and to bind ourselves constitutionally to that assertion if we don't really believe it. Intellectual honesty requires us to either adhere to the confessions of our institution, or join/make an institution that agrees with our own confession. Otherwise, what's the point of having a constitution in the first place?

Larry Christenson's comments on ELCA and homosexuality

Posted by Ralph Skoe at October 13, 2009 11:08
We attended an ELCA church last Sunday in Wisconsin but I will not divulge the Pastor's name nor the Church but part of his message was about "Wake up Church". Then just week I was reading Leviticus 18:22 "Do not lie with a man and one does with a woman; that is detestable". WAKE UP ELCA. We need to pray for the church.



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Adiaphora, Mandata,
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Pelikans' Progress

Lutherans and Mennonites
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