A Warning from Bishop N. T. Wright
by
Sarah Wilson
—
July 19, 2009
Tom Wright--known to fans of his scholarly works as N.T.--published this article in response to last week's vote by The Episcopal Church to lift the moratorium on homosexually partnered bishops requested by the wider Anglican communion...
Tom Wright--known to fans of his scholarly works as N.T.--published this article in response to last week's vote by The Episcopal Church to lift the moratorium on homosexually partnered bishops requested by the wider Anglican communion. The relevance of his concerns to our own situation are clear.
Not the only issue
Posted by
Peter
at
July 20, 2009 00:26
It's not as big a deal for Lutherans. The ELCA already disagrees with the LCMS on major, Gospel issues, and yet we still manage to deal with each other in pan-Lutheran bodies. Allowing clergy to marry same-sex couples actually places us closer to certain European Lutheran churches, like that of Sweden.
Reply to Peter
Posted by
Sarah Wilson
at
July 20, 2009 01:06
The vast majority of LWF churches will not support this move, and certainly not any of the growing Global South churches that the ELCA claims to love and support in its commitment to multiculturalism. I have noticed among Lutherans and Episcopalians alike, respect and admiration for cultural differences always runs out when it comes to the homosexuality issue. Further, the approval of same-sex unions in Scandinavia has much to do with the fact that they are state churches, so anti-discrimination laws in the state of necessity applied to the church--hardly a church-state model that American Lutherans would find desirable--and there was certainly no coherent theological reason offered for this change. Finally, the Church of Sweden has the abject lowest rate of attendance and participation of any Lutheran church in the world. Getting closer to this church is hardly anything to be proud of.
Scandinavian state churches
Posted by
David Pross
at
July 20, 2009 12:30
Not only that, but the churches of Norway, Denmark and Finland contain a lot of "nominal" members, who may show up for Christmas, Easter, baptisms and confirmation but not much more.
So many of the pro-homosexuality people think that traditionalists can just leave ELCA and go to LCMS. Been there did that. There are a lot more differences between us than just homosexuality.
So many of the pro-homosexuality people think that traditionalists can just leave ELCA and go to LCMS. Been there did that. There are a lot more differences between us than just homosexuality.
LWF also lacks a spine
Posted by
Peter
at
July 20, 2009 22:03
If the theology they talked about at the last LWF thing in Augsburg was any measure, they have absolutely no grounding for any repercussions no matter which way we go on the issue, so long as we continue to use the proper Lutheran "grammar". And as mentioned below, we've got far bigger divides with the LCMS than just the homosexuality issue. It also seems that the LWF benefits as much or more from the ELCA's participation than the other way around. But regardless, our unity is unity in Christ, and we need to be in Christ for that unity. Passing this statement does bring us closer to that unity in Christ.
LWF
Posted by
Jeff Meyer
at
July 24, 2009 01:01
There are plans in the works for churches to leave the LWF and form a new global Lutheran organization with the LCMS; discussions are under way EVEN AS I WRITE THIS!!! Well, probably not, but they are under way. And yes, before you all clamor with your vast knowledge, I know that there is already an alternative group for the confessionalists. This new thing is actually seeking a third, new thing. Anyone else know more about it?
Joking?
Posted by
David Lund
at
August 20, 2009 02:35
"Passing this statement does bring us closer to that unity in Christ."
You're joking, right? This statement is the most sectarian thing that Lutherans in North America have ever entertained. The ELCA is marginalizing itself right out of the worldwide Christian community. It is utterly divisive to cut yourself off from the world's Christians, due to your arrogant, self-focused, unthought-through obsessions. Amazing. "If I don't get my way, I'll take my toys and go away. I'm right and all the rest of you are wrong." Unity? Sorry.
You're joking, right? This statement is the most sectarian thing that Lutherans in North America have ever entertained. The ELCA is marginalizing itself right out of the worldwide Christian community. It is utterly divisive to cut yourself off from the world's Christians, due to your arrogant, self-focused, unthought-through obsessions. Amazing. "If I don't get my way, I'll take my toys and go away. I'm right and all the rest of you are wrong." Unity? Sorry.
Sweden etc.
Posted by
David Lund
at
August 20, 2009 02:25
Being more connected to the Swedish church? Having lived in Scandinavia for years, you need to know that's getting the proverbial blood tranfusion from a corpse.
It also means being disconnected from the only growing Lutheran churches in the world-- in Africa and the Global south.
You will say "growth doesn't automatically mean faithfulness." Then you might bring in the demeaning argument that Africans are becoming Christians because they are dumb as dirt and want more consumer goods.
Last time I checked the NT that growth of the church is due to faithfulness, not cravenness. There is no virtue in shrinkage.
It also means being disconnected from the only growing Lutheran churches in the world-- in Africa and the Global south.
You will say "growth doesn't automatically mean faithfulness." Then you might bring in the demeaning argument that Africans are becoming Christians because they are dumb as dirt and want more consumer goods.
Last time I checked the NT that growth of the church is due to faithfulness, not cravenness. There is no virtue in shrinkage.
Bishop N. T. Wright
Posted by
Pr. Dan Biles
at
July 21, 2009 21:41
Would that our bishops were as accomplished biblical scholars, theologians, and public teachers as Bishop Wright. And had the courage to fulfill their calling to be defenders of the faith.
NT Wright