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Can We Talk?

by Mary Todd — May 01, 2009

When I was studying feminist theory in graduate school, one of the most compelling arguments I read was that of Catherine MacKinnon, professor of law at the University of Michigan, whose Feminism Unmodified: Discourses on Life and Law remains a classic text. MacKinnon, who pioneered the legal claim for sexual harassment as a form of sex discrimination, says simply, “It’s not the gender difference but the difference gender makes.” I’ve been spending a good bit of time of late thinking about difference. Between an online course I’m taking on the civil rights movement—with focus on the Little Rock school desegregation episode—and an informal study a friend and I are pursuing on forgiveness, I’ve been immersed again in reading about what is referred to in the literature as “the Other” and how we are to relate to those who differ from us...

When I was studying feminist theory in graduate school, one of the most compelling arguments I read was that of Catherine MacKinnon, professor of law at the University of Michigan, whose Feminism Unmodified: Discourses on Life and Law remains a classic text. MacKinnon, who pioneered the legal claim for sexual harassment as a form of sex discrimination, says simply, “It’s not the gender difference but the difference gender makes.”

I’ve been spending a good bit of time of late thinking about difference. Between an online course I’m taking on the civil rights movement—with focus on the Little Rock school desegregation episode—and an informal study a friend and I are pursuing on forgiveness, I’ve been immersed again in reading about what is referred to in the literature as “the Other” and how we are to relate to those who differ from us.

If you don’t have time to read anything else by Yale theologian Miroslav Volf, do take a careful look at his Exclusion and Embrace: A Theological Exploration of Identity, Otherness, and Reconciliation. Volf’s reflections on the difficult issues of understanding self and other narrate his attempts to reconcile his Christian faith with a world of violence too frequently based on ethnic identity or otherness. We exclude others when we should embrace them: “We are who we are not because we are separate from the others who are next to us, but because we are both separate and connected, both distinct and related; the boundaries that mark our identities are both barriers and bridges.”

Tell that to Catholics in America who are up in arms over the invitation Notre Dame extended to President Obama to deliver its commencement address in May. National Catholic Reporter columnist John Allen suggests that only strong doses of charity and perspective might prevent Catholics from “turning this into yet another nasty front in our version of the culture wars,” reminding Catholics that they “ought to be able to disagree without casting one another as enemies of the faith.”

The late Cardinal Joseph Bernardin of Chicago thought so when he conceived the Catholic Common Ground Initiative only months before his death in 1996. Concerned that the animus polarizing Roman Catholics—over social issues in particular—not only hindered the mission but harmed the community of the church, Bernardin suggested Catholics sit down around a table and engage in dialogue together. A believer in the transformative power of conversation, the cardinal’s idea was roundly criticized by several of his colleague bishops who did not share his concern that partisanship was paralyzing the church. Despite the public objections, the Common Ground Initiative has continued its commitment to renewed dialogue in the church for the past twelve years, believing that what Catholics have in common is stronger than what divides them, and believing in the value of dialogue across differences and in conversation as fundamental to human interaction.

Noted Princeton philosopher Kwame Anthony Appiah suggests such dialog begins with the philosophical doctrine of fallibilism: “the recognition that we may be mistaken, even when we have looked carefully at the evidence and applied our highest mental capacities. A fallibilist knows that he or she is likely to make mistakes. We have views, and we take our own views seriously. But we are always open to the possibility that it may turn out that we’re wrong. And if I’m wrong about something, maybe I can learn from others, even though they are, no doubt, wrong about something else.” How often, really—come on, be honest now—do we seriously consider that possibility?

And so I wonder, as the flurry of posts multiplies on this site commenting on the ELCA study, Human Sexuality: Gift and Trust, why is this church not talking to itself? Lutheran Forum voices in all seem to be of a piece with regard to the study—they’re against it. A smug, and unfortunately often snide, attitude of judgment about what is considered a less-than-Lutheran approach to Scripture and theology pervades the commentaries. If I wanted to read that, I’d follow discussion lists or blogs or Fox News. Methinks they do protest too much. Why no dissonant voice to offer balance and create genuine dialogue? A diversity of voices just might remind us of how intentional this church body has been to acknowledge the gift of diversity in the church. Or is that also a part of the problem? With poet Mary Oliver we ask, “If you are too much like myself, what shall I learn of you, or you of me?”

And if indeed the debate is not really about homosexuality but about the much larger issue of discontent with the state of the church, then why would we not make haste to sit down and talk about it? I’ve seen only a few reports thus far on the recent consultation at Augsburg sponsored by the Lutheran World Federation, but they begin with laments about the unfamiliarity of some of what was heard there. That should be no surprise—the world is changing, has changed. Only God is unchanging, so what makes more sense than for the church that must always be reforming itself to recognize, even celebrate, the dynamic nature of the church and ask what it means to be Lutheran in a changing world?

Several years ago I was invited to write a chapter on Lutheranism for a book, Holding On to the Faith: Confessional Traditions in American Christianity, for the Institute for the Study of American Evangelicals. One objective of the project was to help evangelicals understand the European-based churches that define themselves so differently from the anti-confessionalism that dominates American religious history. My essay explores the conflict that seems to be inherent in American Lutheranism, the relentless haggling over a book called Concord that has kept Lutheranism from offering the unique contribution it might to the society in which it was planted. Kept at odds by the very things on which they agree, Lutherans seem to have forgotten the important role paradox plays in their theology, abandoning the both/and for either/or thinking.

So can we talk? My modest proposal for a Lutheran version of the Common Ground Initiative offers no rebuttal to any of the previous essays that have filled these pages this winter (though I do take issue with many of the arguments presented, such as the contention that this is unlike the debate over the ordination of women. That matter of otherness remains unsettled as long as congregations can refuse to consider female candidates without reproach.) I am primarily concerned with their tone, one that Miroslav Volf describes as a tendency “to translate the presumed wrongness of our enemies into an unfaltering conviction of our own rightness.” To be clear, a proposal for dialogue hardly equates to a Rodney King appeal that we all “just get along,” nor does it include an expectation that anyone stand down from his or her own point of view. A proposal for dialogue simply makes a case for enlarged thinking, for thoughtful listening and for an openness to seeing differently.

So call a summit, somebody. Call it Concord-Before-It’s-Too-Late. But call it now, not after August. Invite others in, put their perspective next to yours and reflect together on whether either is right, neither is right, or some of each. But for God’s sake—and more importantly, for the sake of getting the gospel to God’s people in the pews—talk to each other, or this episode will be recorded in history as another monks’ battle in the demise of an increasingly irrelevant institution, not unlike that the Missouri Synod fought in the 1970s and, for that matter, still fights.

Can we Talk? 20 years later

Posted by Peter Kruse at May 01, 2009 09:24
Dr. Todd,

Thank you for your article. I would certainly carry it to the next clergy meeting but for one not so little problem: it is not 1999. The call to "talk about this" and to "hear each other" and to "not assume we are right" worked in the late 80's and early 90's. But now it is over 20 years since the founding of ELCA and the debate turned argument has been with us every day of ELCA's existence.
Dr. Todd, we have talked. We have talked in good faith on both sides. But somewhere along the line, so called "prophetic action" won the day on one side of the debate. High profile irregular ordinations and 3 assemblies with rainbow stoled activists, who, 2 assemblies ago, rushed the stage and stared the assembly down as it took a vote became the shape of the debate attest to this. Blame it on the impasse in the talks if you like. Both sides laid out their cases. They shook hands. They went home. They met again they laid out their cases. They shook hands . . . ad nauseam.
It is not that "to talk" is bad. But at some time real decisions on institutional policy have to actually be made. We are at that point. We are at that point again, I should say, as the debate is politicized by floor motions, designed to end the status quo, at synod and national level again and again.
We can talk about the theology all we want but there is a political, not academic but political, battle that is now in effect. In such a battle everyone is convinced of the correctness of their position, but to make it more complicated, just about all of them have been at the table to talk. Given the results of 20 years of previous conversation, a return for more of the same will seem pointless to the combatants. They want to end the debate, institute policy, leave note that it be enforced, and get on with other things. Nobody has to like it and most do not, but sometimes this has to happen for the institution to survive.

A sepparate matter
We live in the same synod, Dr. Todd. It was in the early ELCA days that our synod voted that any congregation that did not accept a female pastor solely because of her sex would not be given further candidates until they had repented. This repercussion has not been used to my recollection. Instead, the bishop's office has labored to match candidate and congregation such that the issue would not come up. I raise this obviously because the matter appears in your article. I must ask here: why should there be repercussions to such a congregation? Should there not be "talk?" If you expect conversation to work in the present debate, why should another debate be solved by institutional sanction authorized by synodical vote?

Again, thank you for your article. It is reported that our synod assembly will feature an open floor discussion on Saturday afternoon on subjects that included the one at hand. Maybe you can stop in and participate or at least give us your take on how fruitful the discussion was in the end.

Keep the Faith

Peter Kruse

Concord-Before-It's-Too-Late

Posted by Christine Adryan at May 01, 2009 13:07
Relentless haggling over a book called Concord?

Oh my. Coming from a family of Lutherans and Catholics, having survived the ELCA and a ten year stint in the Catholic Church (thinking it was the "real thing") I am so grateful that some of our Lutheran congregations still acknowledge the profound importance of "a book called Concord."

I am happily back in the LCMS, my views of which are decidedly at odds with thoses of Dr. Todd.

Repy to Mary Todd: Not Talk, but Debate

Posted by Paul Hinlicky at May 04, 2009 01:05
In all candor, Dr. Todd, your recommendation is more of the same. It is the reason why the ELCA is in the mess that it is in: dodging substantive theological questions with an appeal to a very questional process overlayed with a censorious tone of political correctness, based upon a speculative philosophical theory of Otherness (and thus the over-riding mandate for 'inclusiveness'). What some of us, who have been bamboozled by this artful ploy (not least because we too want to include!) for 20 years are now realizing, is that the only real 'Other' in the ELCA is the Scripture as understood in the Lutheran Confession.

May I note, as well, that you are not above the very sin you rebuke? "A smug, and unfortunately often snide, attitude of judgment about what is considered a less-than-Lutheran approach to Scripture and theology pervades the commentaries." Rather than engage the criticism, you smear the critics. "If I wanted to read that, I’d follow discussion lists or blogs or Fox News." Not only do you smear, you induldge in condescension. "Methinks they do protest too much. Why no dissonant voice to offer balance and create genuine dialogue?"

To answer the latter question: because the Others are cowards afraid of a free, fair, theologically substantive debate. They are afraid of this because their stunning revisionism would be exposed in it to the light of day. Then the dumb churchgoers who faithfully send their benevolence off to HQ would turn off the faucet. So away with debate, heap on the maudlin sentimentality about our 'unity in Christ' no matter what. That, at least, is my operating hypothesis. I will be happy to be proven wrong. But methinks with Martin Luther, "Woe unto the prophets who cry, Peace! Peace! when there is no peace!"

It is not 'talk' we need, but debate. I for one would be delighted to debate theologically those who favor the draft Social Statement and the Four Recommendations, but I find that they dodge debate and hide behind the appeals like yours to process, tone, and half-baked theories about embracing the Other. And there is a political reason for this. At its founding the ELCA destroyed the ministerium where such debate and deliberation once had a home, and in its place created the quota-driven, lay-dominated assembly that was designed to be a compliant tool in the hands of the Higgins Road elite.

Yes, I said, 'half-baked.' The metaphor means 'an idea not thought through consequently,' and that is what I am commenting about what you have written. So, if you would like to debate philosophically about 'the Other,' I am ready with my Derrida and Levinas et al to show you how naive and superficial, at least in this blog post, your own snide and condescending remarks really are. Not talk, but debate.

More Talk

Posted by Larry A Peters at May 05, 2009 10:33
I have noticed that it seems the call to talk is less a call for open and honest consideration than it is a call to change your mind. The conversation in the ELCA has never touched upon the heart of the matter when it comes to GLBT and what Scripture says but began with the perspective that said up front Scripture never said what people say it says and proceeded from there. More talk will not change this.

In contrast to this, the conversation, say at the last Fort Wayne Seminary Symposia, was honest conversation, polite, and challenging. Paul Sauer reports that the whole atmosphere was really quite welcoming. No one dismissed anyone up front but the conversation weighed through the most painful moments of Missouri's recent memory. As one who lived through that period, whose friends were dispersed in part because of that conflict, I can say this kind of conversation is what the LCMS and the ELCA need -- not the kind Mary Todd imagines.

People In the Pews

Posted by Rik at May 05, 2009 16:53
"But for God’s sake—and more importantly, for the sake of getting the gospel to God’s people in the pews—talk to each other..." Mary Todd, talking to each other is a fine recommendation when it's the right talk for the right time. For the sake of God's people in the pews, speak to them the Law and the Gospel: "The Law must be preached to all men, but especially to impenitent sinners; the Gospel must be preached to sinners who are troubled in their minds because of their sins." (p.43, "A Short Explanation of Dr. Martin Luther's Small Catechism" from Luther's Small Catechism, 1943, 1971, CPH, Saint Louis, MO). The last thing the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America needs right now is passage of a radical, liberal social statement on homosexuality which will only further polarize its constituency and perhaps lead to a break-up of this church body--unless you are advocating such a break-up as a positive move. A talking about differences, as others have written, would be reduntant and most likely fruitless. What would be more helpful would be for the ELCA to vote this Statement and Recommendations down for the sake of their fellow layperson, for the sake of the church catholic, with whom they desire ecumenical relations, for the sake of not setting precedent by accepting a Statemnt which largely ignores Biblical witness in reviewing the passages in Scripture which relate directly to the topic. For the sake of not offending the church throughout the ages with shameful scandal, the Recommendations must be voted down. Most of all, for the sake of the people in the pews who are being (may I borrow the word, Paul?) bamboozled, who need to hear sound Scriptural teaching, rebuke, correction and training in righteousness (2 Timothy 3:16) in addition to 1 John 3:16 (NIV): "This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers", may these proposals be soundly defeated, and may God's Holy Word be proclaimed from the pulpits of ELCA church buildings. "Laid down his life FOR US" (emphasis mine) can ring hollow if we miss the words of confession: "...I, a poor, miserable sinner, confess unto Thee all my sins and iniquities...and justly deserve Thy temporal and eternal punishment..." What is sacrifice if it is understood as unnecessary? Can we speak words of life to those who are spiritually dead? Can we talk for the sake of those NOT YET in the pews, who face an eternity in hell, separated from God, because no one seems willing to love them enough to convict them with the Law and shower them with the joyous Gospel that they may be born again by the Spirit of God? Jesus did not remain aloof from the disordered, spiritually sight-challenged, sinful world into which he entered. God-with-us came to the prostitutes, the greedy, dishonest tax-collectors, the hated Samaritans, the "worthless" lepers, the sick and demon posessed and surprised them with mercy and love and concern and personal attention! Oh, that we would do that, not condoning sin, but not ignoring the very real needs of others either. Let's talk about how to reach them with the true Gospel in word and in deed. Let us flesh out the enormous love of Christ Jesus in our daily actions, without keeping silent in testifying to the source of our shalom and love. The content of our speech should be "What's best for the church and her mission?" Not, "how far can the church stretch before breaking?" And, "how much spiritual compromise can Higgins Road expect the ELCA to 'agree to disagree' before believers wake up and realize that the so-called proclaimed "unity" is really no unity at all?" May the words of our mouths be spoken to another in love, and may the people in the pews be respected and truly heard, and not repeatedly ignored. May the will of the Almighty be done. LORD, in Your mercy, hear our prayer.

BOC1580@gmail.com

Posted by Rev. Paul T. McCain at May 08, 2009 08:56
Perhaps somebody would let Dr. Todd know that there have been several responses to her post "Let's Talk" so she might come back here and respond to the comments? Seems appropriate, in light of the title of the post. I am particularly interested in Dr. Todd's response to Dr. Hinlicky.

Can We Talk ad infinitum?

Posted by History at May 19, 2009 14:06
See: http://pietist.blogspot.com/2005/03/what-does-elca-stand-for.html


mwdooley@comcast.net

Posted by Mick Lee at March 03, 2010 13:34

"Can We Talk" is based on what I call the "University" model of the Church. That is, it is as if the Church were the place where various points of view were endlessly entertained with no decisive conclusion reached by the community of scholars. But even in the real university, members of the various departments exclude those whose views differ substantially. The idea that we can disagree and still remain a big happy family is a lie. Someone is going to win in the end. The losers will be silenced in the very name of diversity.

The Church is not a university. The Church comes to decisions about what it means and what it will say to the world. Make no mistake. The "revisionists" are intent on tearing out root and branch any suggestion that there may be something wrong same-sex behavior. They will not stand still while we aim to remain in “dialog”. Now that there has been one majority once, suddenly the time of dialog, searching the Scriptures, and being in prayerful community together is over.

As I have written elsewhere, the slow wheels of repression are already beginning to roll. Let time tell how many of you will be tolerated in the facilities of our seminaries, Churchwide committees, and local and national leadership.

Instead of a diversity of voices, there will be words that will never be said by the ELCA ever, ever again.

Lutheran in a Changing World

Posted by Rev. Richard rZeile at June 06, 2010 20:25
Dr. Todd you suggest we explore what it means to be a Lutheran in a changing world. What provisional thoughts do have? Is our Lutheranism more than just our family history ("Thrivent Lutheranism," to coin a phrase), a sentimental attachment based upon experiences that we cannot expect to pass on to our children, or is there something that can be passed on, a content sine qua non? In the Missouri Synod, we have emphasized some things, like the Order of Creation, and certain catholic traditions (too hastily discarded in certain eras) in the face of cultural changes, perhaps because when change causes you to discard some things, you hold on to the remainder that much more tightly. What are you holding on to that makes you "Lutheran in a changing world?

About this Author

Mary Todd

Mary Todd

Mary Todd is on sabbatical after serving nearly five years as Vice President for Academic Affairs, Dean of the Faculty and Professor of History at Ohio Dominican University in Columbus, Ohio. A self-proclaimed church brat, she grew up in a parsonage in suburban Chicago, attended Valparaiso University and received her doctorate from the University of Illinois at Chicago.

Author of Authority Vested: A Story of Identity and Change in the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod, in addition to numerous articles and book chapters, she is a historian of the church. A recent participant in a Lilly project on confessional traditions in American Christianity, her current research is an oral history of the 1970s schism in the Lutheran Church-Missouri Synod.

Former president of the Lutheran Historical Conference, she serves on the Ohio Council for Holocaust Education, and is a member of Grace Evangelical Lutheran Church [ELCA] in Westerville, Ohio.

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